Carbutt Interview

Interview with Jack Carbutt

Mr. Carbutt was born on Friday, April 13, 1917 in Vancouver. He came to Prince George on December 1, 1945 by bus in snow and fog. He came to work for CKPG. Mr. Carbutt has one daughter.

Levesque: Where were you born?

Carbutt: In Vancouver.

Levesque: What year were you born?

Carbutt: 1917 on Friday, April 13th. This Monday coming I will be seventy.

Levesque: How many years did you live in the house where you were born?

Carbutt: Until I was nineteen.

Levesque: How many brothers and sisters did you have?

Carbutt: One sister.

Levesque: How old was your father when you were born?

Carbutt: That I do not recall.

Levesque: What was his occupation?

Carbutt: My father was what they call a boarding master for the C.P.R. He boarded all the camps in British Columbia.

Levesque: What camps?

Carbutt: All the camps on the C.P.R.

Levesque: Did your mother work?

Carbutt: No, they were different times.

Levesque: Did someone make your clothes or did you go out and buy your clothes at that time?

Carbutt: Mother made a lot of our clothes when we were young. After that time, of course, we bought them.

Levesque: Did she have a sewing machine?

Carbutt: Yes, a peddle machine, naturally not an electric.

Levesque: Did you have any tasks you had to carry out regularly at home?

Carbutt: I used to cut the lawn. I'd have to do a little gardening in the back yard. We had a big back yard. Outside of that I'd take the garbage out, I guess. Usual procedure. I do that today.

Levesque: Where did the family have their meals?

Carbutt: In the kitchen, usually.

Levesque: Who did the cooking?

Carbutt: My mother,

Levesque: Did you have a wood burning stove?'

Carbutt: Yes, wood and coal. Actually we got around to having gas too.

Levesque: When was breakfast eaten? Did everyone get up and have breakfast?

Carbutt: Not usually, no. Dad used to go to work by eight o'clock so he used to eat first or we would eat before we went to school, eight thirty maybe.

Levesque: Did your mother or father bake bread?

Carbutt: Yes, my mother baked bread in the old fashioned way.

Levesque: Did she make jam, bottle fruit?

Carbutt: Yes.

Levesque: Pickles, wine, beer?

Carbutt: No wine, no beer.

Levesque: Did you grow vegetables?

Carbutt: We had a few in the garden. not that many, but a few

Levesque: That wasn't enough to?

Carbutt: To live off of, no.

Levesque: Did you keep any livestock?

Carbutt: no. I had a rooster once. He died.

Levesque: Were you allowed to talk during meals?

Carbutt: Yes, in fact during meals was some of our best discussions.

Levesque: What was your parent's attitude if you left some food uneaten on the plate

Carbutt: No problem.

Levesque: Were you expected to hold your knife and fork in a certain way and sit a certain way?

Carbutt: Yes.

Levesque: Who served the meal?

Carbutt: My sister and my mother.

Levesque: Was your mother an easy person to talk to?

Carbutt: Very easy indeed.

Levesque: Did she show a lot of affection?

Carbutt: Yes.

Levesque: How did your parents expect you to behave towards them?

Carbutt: They didn't expect anything out of the ordinary.

Levesque: When grownups were talking, were you allowed to join in?

Carbutt: At times, yes, if it was pertinent at the particular time.

Levesque: If you did something that your parents disapproved of, what would happen? What kind of punishment did you get?

Carbutt: We used to go down to the basement. No punishment really attached. I never remember either my father or my mother hitting me, spanking me or anything. In other words I was a spoiled brat,

Levesque: You never got grounded.

Carbutt: No.

Levesque: Did you ever get in trouble for swearing?

Carbutt: No. I was told it wasn't right.

Levesque: When you had your birthday, would it be different from any other day ?

Carbutt: Yes, I used to have birthday parties. I would have some of the young people in. I was young in those times. They were good days.

Levesque: Did you have any musical instruments in the home?

Carbutt: Yes, a piano. My sister taught piano. In later years I was given the opportunity of having organ lessons on a three manual pipe organ in Vancouver which I pursued until I got my degree.

Levesque: A degree.

Carbutt: I mean like you get ATC, piano, etc.

Levesque: How many years did you play before you got your degree?

Carbutt: I think I started organ lessons when I was around fifteen. I took exams every year and twice a year towards the end. That lead me into the undertaking business in Vancouver where I played the organ, drove the car and learned the funeral business.

Levesque: You played at functions.

Carbutt: Mostly funerals. I played for weddings and things like that for friends. I had a church choir in Vancouver in North Burnaby for about three years. I was seventeen and a half when I had a choir and played the organ.

Levesque: That wasn't many years to learn and then become professional.

Carbutt: Professionalism at that time was $15.00 a month. There's a difference.

Levesque: That was still a lot of money then.

Carbutt: I used to buy butter at Woodwards - three pounds for a dollar which is a little different than 1987.

Levesque: Did you ever play at home to entertain the family or guests?

Carbutt: I played, but I didn't have an organ at home. We had the piano. My sister was a piano teacher for some thirty years.

Levesque: Did she ever play the piano and everyone gather around and sing?

Carbutt: Yes, we would sing songs.

Levesque: Did your parents play any games with you?

Carbutt: Yes, my dad played soccer with me. That's the only team sport that I was interested in and played for many, many years.

Levesque: Were there books in the house?

Carbutt: Yes, lots of them.

Levesque: Did you read a lot?

Carbutt: Yes, I did.

Levesque: What type of literature were you interested in?

Carbutt: Literature as far as I was known in those days as I was growing up, I progressed in my thinking. It wasn't heavy stuff. I didn't like school but I had to go through with school but I certainly didn't like it. Literature as you call it would be not as I say heavy. It would be novels or something like that.

Levesque: Just novels,

Carbutt: Novels, yes.

Levesque: Were you taken out visiting neighbours?

Carbutt: Yes, taken out to visit many, many times. Even my Dad sent my mother and myself to England many, many years ago. My mother and Dad were born in England. He sent the two of us over to England. I think I was sixteen at that time.

Levesque: How long did you go there for?

Carbutt: Six months.

Levesque: That's nice.

Carbutt: Yes, it was very nice.

Levesque: Did you go to school over there?

Carbutt: No.

Levesque: Did you work over there?

Carbutt: No, I didn't work over there.

Levesque: It was one very long vacation.

Carbutt: It was a beautiful vacation. It was an education at the same time. Things that I would never have seen. The adoption of many ideas that I would never have known and some of them came in handy, especially knowing girls.

Levesque: That wasn't where you met your wife by any chance?

Carbutt: No, that was quite a few years later.

Levesque: Have you been back there since?

Carbutt: No, I have never been back.

Levesque: What activities did you partake in over there?

Carbutt: In England. Everything from cricket to playing an organ in a country church, going to the cinema and buying petrol. Anything that you could really think of. I was very fortunate in having cousins and uncles that were interested. They could not understand why it took us five days to travel from Vancouver to Montreal to get the boat. They couldn't visualize the five thousand miles and then the ocean trip. I think the big thing was the fact that they didn't quite understand until we sat down for hours and hours and hours and discussed things. It was an education for them and a beautiful education for me.

Levesque: Did your parents attend a place of worship?

Carbutt: Yes, the United Church.

Levesque: You, yourself.

Carbutt: I was in many churches. Actually I was in the United Church but I used to sing when l was a boy soprano. I went to many different denominations for solo work. When I joined the funeral business, l played in many churches for services,

Levesque: Did you say grace before meals?

Carbutt: Yes, we did, not every meal but at dinner or as you call, maybe supper. We were taught that it was dinner.

Levesque: Were you taught to say prayers before you went to bed?

Carbutt: Yes, "Now I lay me down to sleep".

Levesque: Did you ever have family prayers?

Carbutt: No, we weren't interested. I don't think they were interested in that.

Levesque: How much would you say religion meant to you as a child?

Carbutt: It was part of my life. I wasn't subjected to going to church. I wasn't subjected to going to Sunday School but I seemed to go. It was the thing to do. I had some people my age as I grew that went and I would go with them or they'd go with me. it wasn't a thing that was forced. I think the whole trouble today is people force things.

Levesque: Do you still go to church today?

Carbutt: No, when I came to Prince George I went to the Radio Station where I opened the station, CKPG, but I also worked part time for Harold Assman at the funeral chapel which I did up until about three years ago, in the same capacity of organ and conducting funerals, etc. It's not a morbid job, you know.

Levesque: Oh no. Did your father take an interest in politics?

Carbutt: I would say to the extent that he voted every time, yes. He was interested when an election came and he did vote.

Levesque: Do you know what his views were?

Carbutt: Yes. In those days, of course, CCF, which is now NDP party. If you're going to ask the question, "Did I follow?" No, I didn't follow,

Levesque: Did you ever take an interest in politics?

Carbutt: Outside of the fact that I vote, I take an interest in knowing what's going to happen. Of course, throughout the years, as an individual, it's his right to vote and he should vote or he shouldn't say anything after the people get elected.

Levesque: When your parents were not doing their work, how did they spend their time? What major activities?

Carbutt: They didn't really have that many leisure activities. There was always something to do. In the spring and summer time every two or three years, my Dad would paint the house and things like that.

Levesque: Did your mother have any interests outside the home?

Carbutt: Not too many. No, she didn't. She had some very good friends. In those days it was difficult to get around. We didn't have a car and my Dad only had one eye. He was unable to drive until I was sixteen. They bought a car and l was able to drive at sixteen.

Levesque: Did your father take part in any sport?

Carbutt: No, not to my knowledge. All he was interested in was soccer, but was not a player.

Levesque: As a child, who did you play with?

Carbutt: Girls. No, I played with neighbours. We had some very good neighbours where we lived in Vancouver. They had people my age. We seemed to get along all right.

Levesque: What games did you play?

Carbutt: Oh my goodness, that goes back a long time. I guess we played the regular children's games up to the age when I began to know about girls.

Levesque: What types of toys did you have?

Carbutt: I remember one Christmas. I was very surprised. I got an electric train. We bought more track and had it running all through from the kitchen to the living room to the front room, etc. I think my Dad was more interested than I was.

Levesque: Were you allowed to get dirty when you played?

Carbutt: Oh, yes.

Levesque: Were you free to play with anyone you pleased or did your parents choose for you?

Carbutt: I was very lucky looking back over the years. I was allowed to play with anyone. I had some nice Chinese friends and some nice Japanese friends.

Levesque: Your parents didn't discourage you from playing with
certain children.

Carbutt: No.

Levesque: Did you have any hobbies?

Carbutt: Not at that time. How far are you going back?

Levesque: To your childhood.

Carbutt: No, not really. I was quite interested in music when I was younger. That was another thing. My parents never forced me to sit down and study for an hour every day. I was interested in that.

Levesque: Did you keep any pets?

Carbutt: No pets, outside of my rooster.

Levesque: Did your parents give you any pocket money?

Carbutt: Yes.

Levesque: What did you spend that on?

Carbutt: Going to the show every Saturday, ten cents for the show and a nickel for popcorn.

Levesque: What relations of your father do you remember?

Carbutt: My father had two brothers in Vancouver. My mother didn't have any relations in Vancouver. That's why Dad sent her and myself back to England.

Levesque: Did they live nearby?

Carbutt: Nearby at that time would be quite a way. One lived in what is now Surrey and one in North Vancouver.

Levesque: Did you see them often?

Carbutt: About once a month.

Levesque: Did your parents have friends?

Carbutt: Yes.

Levesque: Did they share the same friends?

Carbutt: Yes, they seemed to, likes and dislikes.

Levesque: Were people ever invited into the home?

Carbutt: Yes, we had friends into our home quite often as a matter of fact. I remember at Christmas time our table set eighteen. Then on New Years on alternate years We would go to one of the friends place.

Levesque: Did people call in casually without an invitation?

Carbutt: Yes, it seemed to be the custom.

Levesque: How did your parents entertain them? Did they play games?

Carbutt: Yes, they used to play games. They used to play cards quite a bit. We had a mother who never drank but my dad always had liquor in the house for his friends that did. He was very lucky to the extent he hired a lot of chinese cooks for his work. Every Christmas they'd be presenting him with a bottle of scotch. We had a cupboard downstairs that was full of scotch. That's probably where I learned to drink.

Levesque: What class would you say you belonged to then?

Carbutt: Middle class.

Levesque: Can you remember being brought up to treat people of one sort differently than people of another?

Carbutt: no. I was brought up to respect people no matter what class they were.

Levesque: Were you given lessons by anyone before going to school?

Carbutt: No.

Levesque: How old were you when you first went to school?

Carbutt: I was six.

Levesque: What type of school was that?

Carbutt: It was a public school.

Levesque: Both females and males.

Carbutt: Yes.

Levesque: If you did something that the teachers disapproved of, what would happen?

Carbutt: They used the strap.

Levesque: Did that happen to you often?

Carbutt: Now that's a very personal question but l would say as the years got older, yes, it happened a fair amount.

Levesque: Would they give the strap to girls just as easily as boys?

Carbutt: Yes, they did.

Levesque: That's fair.

Carbutt: I don't think as hard. They didn't strap hard anyway when you come to think about.

Levesque: Did the teachers emphasize certain things as important in life, manners?

Carbutt: Yes. It was more of an individual teaching in those years.

Levesque: Did the teachers encourage discussion?

Carbutt: Yes. Actually they did right from the beginning.

Levesque: How old were you when you left school?

Carbutt: Sixteen.

Levesque: That would have been what grade?

Carbutt: I was in the second grade at high. I went to Vancouver College, a Catholic school. I wasn't catholic but my Dad end Mom thought it would be good for me. It turned out to be good in one way and wasn't in the other. I didn't particularly like the attitude of the Brothers at the school. I enjoyed the sports. There were some good teachers but very disciplinarian. That didn't quite go for me.

Levesque: Was that an all male school or was it males and females?

Carbutt: No that was a male school.

Levesque: While you were at school did you have any part time job?

Carbutt: No, I didn't.

Levesque: You didn't start work until you finished school?

Carbutt: About seventeen.

Levesque: Where did you go to work then?

Carbutt: I got the job as an organist choir leader at the church. Then I went into the undertaking business playing for funerals and learning the business in Vancouver.

Levesque: Did you apply for those on your own?

Carbutt: Yes, l did.

Levesque: Did you have any training period for that?

Carbutt: No, there was no training period outside of learning the business when I got there.

Levesque: Would you have preferred another type of occupation?

Carbutt: I was quite interested in poetry and things like that, not heavy stuff, the regular poetry, as l call it, down to earth. The gentleman I worked for in the undertaking business in Vancouver sponsored a program on CKMO in Vancouver which I did every Sunday afternoon for half an hour. That's how l got into radio. One day the Program Director called me up and asked if I would take an audition. I did on Monday night and on Wednesday night I was working.

Levesque: Were you really excited about that? Did you expect that to happen?

Carbutt: Yes, I expected it to happen. That's not ego. I enjoyed it and he told me that he could tell that I was interested and would work hard which I did because l was interested.

Levesque: Before you were sent over to the audition, did you know that you wanted to get into radio business?

Carbutt: Yes.

Levesque: Did you have to take any courses?

Carbutt: No, I never took a course in radio speaking or or anything like that at all.

Levesque: Did other people have to at that time?

Carbutt: A lot of people trying to get into radio took speech courses. Many schools in Vancouver at that time did a very good job. It was not too hard to get in at that time. It changed of course. Radio today is a lot different than in those days. You had to be very articulate. You had to watch very carefully what you said. You were told and brought up on the fact that you don't talk down to people, talk as you would talk to a friend. Things have changed quite a bit.

Levesque: With working for the radio station at that time change your life style in any way?

Carbutt: Yes, it changed quite a bit. As a matter of fact, when I went to work for the radio station, I was given a night shift from six at night until one o'clock in the morning, six days a week. In the day time I worked for the Undertaking Chapel. For six months l did that. I was seventeen, eighteen and I thought that's fine. I was making $60.00 a month at the radio station. I was making over $100.00 a month at the undertaking business. At that particular time I was eating off the hog as a matter of fact. It changed my lifestyle to the fact that I only lasted six months trying to do both jobs even young. I didn't have any outside activity. I would work in the daytime to maybe four, go home and change, have something to eat at my mother's house, go to work, come home at 1:30 or 2 o'clock in the morning. There wasn't really much chance for activity.

Levesque: Were you still living at home when you first started working?

Carbutt: When I started, yes.

Levesque: How long did you live at home?

Carbutt: I lived at home until I was nineteen and a half.

Levesque: Then where did you move to?

Carbutt: I worked for CKOM, then I moved for six months to Kamloops to Station CFJC which is still there.

Levesque: That was the first time you lived on your own.

Carbutt: That's right.

Levesque: Away from the family. You moved right out of town.

Carbutt: Yes.

Levesque: Did you have your own place there?

Carbutt: Yes, I had an apartment.

Levesque: Did starting work full time change your relationship with your parents?

Carbutt: No, not really. We had phone calls once a week, had letters when it was possible.

Levesque: Were your parents proud of you?

Carbutt: Yes.

Levesque: When you moved to Kamloops, were you working full time?

Carbutt: Yes, I was working full time.

Levesque: You had some extra time for leisurely activities.

Carbutt: Yes, I did.

Levesque: What type of activities did you do then?

Carbutt: Mostly l played a lot of soccer during the summertime. I was only there for six months. The gentleman who managed CKPG was in Kelowna at CHOB. He contacted me and I came up here in 1945.

Levesque: How did you travel from Vancouver to Kamloops and then from Kamloops up here?

Carbutt: Vancouver to Kamloops by train and from Kamloops to here by bus on dirt roads, very little pavement.

Levesque: Did you have any special friends in Kamloops?

Carbutt: Just the usual. I wouldn't say friends, acquaintances. I wasn't there long enough to establish myself.

Levesque: Mostly people you worked with.

Carbutt: Yes.

Levesque: You didn't meet girls there.

Carbutt: When I was in Kamloops, I came back to Vancouver and got married for the first time. That cut out the so called girlfriends,

Levesque: Where did you meet your wife?

Carbutt: In Vancouver.

Levesque: While you were working in Kamloops.

Carbutt: When l was working in Vancouver.

Levesque: You met her before you went to Kamloops.

Carbutt: Before I went to Kamloops.

Levesque: How long had you known your wife before you married her?

Carbutt: About a year.

Levesque: How did you meet?

Carbutt: Through one of the engineers at the radio station in Vancouver. He had been taking her out. We seemed to get together. It worked out from that point.

Levesque: Where did she come from?

Carbutt: Vancouver.

Levesque: Were you engaged to her for a period of time?

Carbutt: About three months. That was unheard of in those days. Very short engagement. Nowadays it doesn't matter.

Levesque: Did you save up money before getting married?

Carbutt: Yes. When we married, we had a little money saved. Actually we were very lucky with our parents, both sides, who helped us when we got started.

Levesque: When you moved to Prince George, you brought her with you?

Carbutt: No, she stayed in Vancouver. I didn't have accommodation here. There was only three of us when we came to Prince George, the Manager, the Engineer and myself. We stayed in the Prince George Hotel for months. It got so we couldn't keep up with the paperwork and she was a stenographer so she came up.

Levesque: So she worked with you?

Carbutt: Yes.

Levesque: Could you describe your wedding.

Carbutt: Which one? First one, second one, third one, fourth one. No. it was a white wedding, very nice.

Levesque: Big wedding.

Carbutt: Yes, quite big.

Levesque: Did you go on a honeymoon?

Carbutt: Yes, to Victoria,

Levesque: How old was your wife when you married?

Carbutt: Oh my goodness, twenty or twenty one

Levesque: How old were you?

Carbutt: Twenty or twenty one.

Levesque: You had one daughter.

Carbutt: Not with my first wife. We were divorced a number of years later and I met my present wife in Prince George. We've been married for over forty years. My present wife and I had one daughter. My wife was forty five at the time. My daughter is now forty one.

Levesque: When your daughter was young, did you feel there was a right way or wrong way of bringing her up?

Carbutt: I think we agreed on one thing. As far as religion was concerned, my wife was Catholic. She was brought up as a Catholic, perfectly okay by me. One religion is as good as another. I never interfered in that. We think the way we brought her up was the right way. She turned out to be very good.

Levesque: Do you agree that girls should be treated the same way as boys when they are children?

Carbutt: I would imagine there are some differences. The old saying is that girls are more fragile than a boy. As far as our daughter is concerned we have never spanked her but with boys sometimes I think you have. I wouldn't know.

Levesque: Did you discourage her from hunting or carpentry?

Carbutt: We didn't discourage her in anything at all.

Levesque: Did you like Prince George when you first moved here?

Carbutt: Yes, I came up in 1945. December 1st, snow, fog. You couldn't see across from the old Fraser River bridge when we came in by bus. There was wooden sidewalks. Tall trees started to grow about Victoria Street. You were in timber but it was a real experience.

Levesque: Was it a culture shock coming from Vancouver?

Carbutt: You didn't have the things that Vancouver could provide you with. We had two theatres at the time. We had the old Princess and the Strand. There was a lot of friendly entertainment. Population was only around five thousand in 1945. The army had just dispersed from the barracks. It was an uphill battle as far as the Radio Station was concerned. We had good times with good people.

Levesque: Is anyone else in your family involved in radio or TV?

Carbutt: No. My daughter a few years ago worked for the cable company part time in Prince George before she started her dance studio. No one else has been involved in radio or TV.