MacPhillips Interview

Interview of Mrs Connie MacPhillips

Mrs. Connie MacPhillips interviewed in her home, 1429 Birch Street, Prince George, March 12, 1987 by Carol Johnson. Mrs. MacPhillips was born on May 3, 1917, in Trail B.C. to Herb and Alice Clark. She has two sons, Clark and Bob. She served on the library board for eight years. She is now sewing and knitting for the Hospital Auxiliary.

Johnson: Your date of birth.

MacPhillips: May 3, 1917

Johnson: Where were you born?

MacPhillips: Trail, B.C. I'm a local B.C. person.

Johnson: Your maiden name,

MacPhillips: Clark

Johnson: Your parent's names.

MacPhillips: Herb and Alice

Johnson: Did you grow up in Trail?

MacPhillips: Yes, l had all my schooling there.

Johnson: What was your dad's occupation?

MacPhillips: He was a master mechanic at Cominco.

Johnson: Your mom?

MacPhillips: She never worked. She worked for Cominco as a stenographer before she was married.

Johnson: What was her maiden name?

MacPhillips: Woodhall

Johnson: Your education beyond Trail high school.

MacPhillips: I went to the University of Alberta and got my Bachelor of Science.

Johnson: Your first job out of high school what did you do?

MacPhillips: I never worked. We didn't even baby sit in those days. When I had the baby, life was pretty tough because I didn't know. I grew up in the depression, finished high school in 1935. 1 never baby sat. I did earn $5.00 by replacing the kindergarten teacher for a week but l never worked.

Johnson: Did your parents pay your way through college?

MacPhillips: Yes.

Johnson: You went to the University of Alberta. How many years was that?

MacPhillips: Three years as I took my first year university, grade 13, in Trail.

Johnson: You didn't need anything beyond the Bachelor of Science.

MacPhillips: I interned at the Vancouver General. I stayed on staff a year. I was sent to Nanaimo and was the first dietician there.

Johnson: In what year?

MacPhillips: In 1940. I interned from '38 to '39. '39 to '40 I worked. I was a Senior Junior Assistant. I had been a Junior Senior Assistant before that. Then I got to be a Senior Junior Assistant.

Johnson: Was it any different?

MacPhillips: No. We worked from seven to seven with two hours off in the afternoon. We had to go home. I got paid when I was interning. I got $15.00 a month and my room cost me $14.00 so I had a dollar left. I had free meals. When I think of what they get now, the girls all have apartments.

Johnson: Were you in the services?

MacPhillips: No.

Johnson: Is Jack his name?

MacPhillips: John Robert

Johnson: His birthdate?

MacPhillips: January 24, 1905

Johnson: Where was he born?

MacPhillips: Vancouver

Johnson: His parent's name?

MacPhillips: Frances and Agatha

Johnson: Their occupation?

MacPhillips: His father was a doctor. He was involved in the formation of St. Paul's Hospital.

Johnson: His mom?

MacPhillips: She was at home.

Johnson: Jack's education beyond high school?

MacPhillips: He went to St. Martins in Lecey, Oregon, but he didn't have university. He went only a year or so after high school. He didn't graduate.

Johnson: What was his occupation?

MacPhillips: He was a salesman. When l met him he was in the army. His regiment was posted to Nanaimo which had an army camp.

Johnson: He was in the services. Do you know what years?

MacPhillips: He'd been in the reserves for years. He had gone at fifteen or sixteen years in the reserve. He was called up before war was declared. At that time he was a Captain. He was in the Canadian Army.

Johnson: You met in Nanaimo, when? You were there a year.

MacPhillips: I wasn't there a year. I hadn't put in my six months probationary period when I put in my notice that l was leaving. I was only there about six months when we were married.

Johnson: In 1930.

MacPhillips: 1941. 1 went in August or September. We were married on March 29, almost forty one that is coming up.

Johnson: Then where did you go? Did you come here?

MacPhillips: No, l lived in Vancouver and he lived in Nanaimo because the Colonel didn't like the officer's wives living in the same town. We had been married six week ends when the regiment was sent back to Niagara.

Johnson: When did you start living together?

MacPhillips: I followed him to Niagara. In September we were moved to ( ......) camp in Burton, Nova Scotia. In January 1942, he was sent to RMC in Kingston for three months. That's where he qualified to be Major. We went back to Deburg. He was invalided out. He came back to Vancouver in 42. Then we started to live together. We were lucky because he didn't go overseas.

Johnson: Did you work when you went back to Vancouver?

MacPhillips: No, I worked for two weeks but that was all.

Johnson: What brought about the move to Prince George?

MacPhillips: Jack was sent up with Great West Life.

Johnson: When did you start to move here?

MacPhillips: We came here in 1950. The spring of 1954 was a terribly wet and drawn out spring break. Those were the days we had really spring break. Everything stopped. They had the strike the year before, finishing around Christmas time. l thought what else was going to happen, it's winter. I promised him I would stay for six months. it turned to twenty three years.

Johnson: Six months you said you would stay here.

MacPhillips: I promised I would stay for six months at the hospital because they were having trouble getting someone. I wasn't fond of the coffee (.... ). I wanted to work but I didn't want to work all the time. Clark had been born in '50 so he was four. Bob was seven. I was lucky. I had a housekeeper, the same woman for five years. That was one reason I could work. The six months dragged out a bit.

Johnson: When and where were the boys born?

MacPhillips: Bob was Robert John. He was born in 1947 in Vancouver.. Our first son was born in 1945 but he died. Clark was born in Prince George in 1950. His teeth was always better than Bobs and I firmly believe it was the chlorinated water.

Johnson: Was it chlorinated then?

MacPhillips: Yes, it was chlorinated then. Clark's teeth looked handsome. Bob's teeth were good but they didn't look as good as Clark's. I've always credited the Prince George water. They were spraying for mosquitoes in those days. Clark was in the buggy. We were watching the sprayer. We lived in ( ). That was the only house Jack could find for us. There was nothing to rent in those days. He wrote and told me he had this house with a pump. I thought that was fine because my families summer home had a pump. All we had to do was watch that the pump came on. I didn't realize this was a pump that would take muscle power. I had to pump every drop of water. We had no pipes. Everything had to be heated on the stove and with a new baby, it was hard.

Johnson: That was fun.

MacPhillips: I had never camped. I would never go with the boys. We had two years of that and had never camped.

Johnson: You don't like roughing it.

MacPhillips: No. That was terrible. Imagine how much washing you do with a baby. We had diapers in those days. We didn't have the throw away diapers.

Johnson: When we moved here, we had two babies, one still in diapers and a new baby within six months. I came when I was eight and until I went away to university, we had a pump.

MacPhillips: Where were you?

Johnson: At Mud River.

MacPhillips: We were lucky. The pump was in the kitchen.

Johnson: Ours was too, actually it was in the living room but it was inside.

MacPhillips: Yes, you didn't have to go outside. We had an inside toilet but you had to carry your pail of water with you.

Johnson: When you have to pump all the water yourself, you think, carefully about what water you use.

MacPhillips: Yes, I always think of the girl across the street. She had heated the water for a bath and put it in the pail. She was going to carry it into the bath tub. Instead, she forgot and put it down the toilet. She was ready to shoot herself. We had a full bath, bathtub with a drain, no taps. We had a basin with a drain. It had the taps but it didn't work. You had extra dusting and cleaning.

Johnson: When did Bob die?

MacPhillips: Five years, the day after our wedding anniversary, five days on March 30. His birthday was December 27th.

Johnson: You were really close.

MacPhillips: This month is hard so we are going south, leaving the week of 14th to 21st. We usually try and get away about that time. We were lucky that we were here when he was killed. They were having a reception for Hazel MacRae being so long at the hospital. I was to be the MC. That wasn't until April 5th. Normally we would have been away but we were here when it happened.

Johnson: Do you have a phone?

MacPhillips: Yes

Johnson: They could still have got hold of you.

MacPhillips: But we would have had to come back. ( sound went on the tape )

Johnson: Where' s Clark?

MacPhillips: He's at the Queen Charlottes. He's at (...). They bought a trailer.

Johnson: What motivated you to train to be a dietician?

MacPhillips: Motivated me? I had no choice in it. My father's friend had a daughter-. She had taken this course. They were from Calgary. Daddy heard of this and I had no choice. I wasn't a bad student. I was good in language. In those days we took French and Latin. I wasn't good in Science. Here I was I taking a course with Science. In those days you didn't question it. As it happened, he was lucky because I loved it. I really enjoyed hospital work. My sister had to take teaching. She didn't like it after she got her Bachelor of Education. I think she may have taught two weeks. She hated it. She hated University. I didn't like University that much. It was very lonesome and missed the small town. Trail had no poverty. Edmonton had so much poverty which I'd never seen. I thought everybody had turkey for Christmas. The company gave all the workers a turkey. We all had a turkey for Christmas time. Instead of the men being laid off, they went on shorter hours. My father always worked seven days a week even in his position. During the depression, he went on five days a week. The men on shift that worked three shifts a day, they worked fifteen and then they were off five. They still made good money and it was steady work.

Johnson: If you lived in Trail, you worked at Cominco or there was no where to live.

MacPhillips: There was places to live but you always had work. Everybody worked. Daddy was mayor for years. We were considered rich.

Johnson: You must have been to be able to go to University.

MacPhillips: Yes, our tuition was about $125.00. Room and board was about the same thing. Mom and Daddy gave me an allowance of $25.00 a month. Whole families were living on that. Years later when l was at the hospital here, the Burns salesman came in. He got talking and by jove, he had been in Edmonton the same time I was going to school. He was the only one working in his family. He had a brother. All he made was $25.00 a month and he was supporting his family on that. Here I was just spending on toothpaste, clothes, having my fortune told and things like that.

Johnson: Any special honors, top of the class!

MacPhillips: No. When I was in high school, yes. We had to write the government exam and I came third. This friend of mine, whom I still see, came first. She's still in Trail. She came back and taught in Trail. She graduated with 84. This boy, Gordon, had 82 and I had 80 something. I wrote thirteen exams.

Johnson: The Sciences would all be separate.

MacPhillips: I only had one science. I took Chemistry but I had two frenchs, two latins and l took a geography in case I might need it. I worked so hard. When I got to University I decided I wouldn't work so hard. I should have. It's twenty years before you appreciate your university training. This is the sad thing. All the girls felt the same way in my intern class. They felt that the university was wasted. They could have learned the diets, it would have been easy for a gall bladder colostitis. It would have been but you don't begin to appreciate the background or all that you learned. You finally understand why it's needed. There were thirteen in our senior matric class, three girls. This great friend that l mentioned that I see all the time, she phoned me the other day to tell me that she had a letter from a man in Australia. He had been in our senior matric class. He was asking about the class. We were trying to remember who the thirteen were. We didn't get very far, only got about seven or eight. We'll get together this summer.

Johnson: What was your pay once you really started working?

MacPhillips: When I went to Nanaimo, l got $90.00 a month. Sixty went for room and board. I had $30.00 a month left. I was wealthy. I bought all my clothes. Of course, I didn't save a cent. I didn't approve of saving. The insurance agents all grabbed onto me when I came to Nanaimo but I didn't approve of insurance for women either. I spent all my money. I liked Nanaimo. I was terrified when I went there because the cook had been there thirty five years. We have to work so closely. As it turned out, he was terrified of me. We got along so well. I just loved him.

Johnson: He had never worked under a dietician because you were the first. He thought that you were some young snip who would try and tell him how to do his job.

MacPhillips: It was tough because we had this nurse in the O.R. She didn't talk to me for about the first five months. She didn't consider the hospital needed a dietician. She had great influence in the hospital being that she was head of the O.R.

Johnson: Was the position of dietician just coming into being then or just in the small hospitals?

MacPhillips: In the small hospitals. There were thirteen student interns when I was at the General. I don't think they have anymore now. Yet, they should have. We need more.

Johnson: They didn't go into diet counseling.

MacPhillips: No.

Johnson: Everything was to do with the kitchen.

MacPhillips: Yes. We were always involved in the food preparation and the food production. Now the diet technicians and diet supervisors do that. The dieticians do the diets and the counseling. There are so many outlets you can go into. For example, the dairy foundation has a dietician. There is usually an area of nutritionist. I don't know if we have one or not.

Johnson: There's one at the Health Unit.

MacPhillips: There was Sarah Lynch but she's gone. She went back to University. I don't know if she was replaced or not. When I was working here and finally got so I could have an assistant, I couldn't get dieticians to come. I finally got one in the early 60's. There was such a demand for them. They weren't going to come to Prince George. Right or wrong I felt I got back at them. When they did get a few more dieticians, they would write to me and I wasn't very happy with them. I got my dietician from the United States. I used to advertise in the American Dietetic Journal. The first two or three Dieticians I had were Filipino girls that had come to the United States. They had done their internship in the States. I wouldn't take them unless they had their internship. They came here. They could only live so long in the States and then had to move either home or somewhere else.

Johnson: Did you stipulate they had to stay six months?

MacPhillips: No, I was grateful for the length of time they would come.

Johnson: Did they intend to stay?

MacPhillips: Yes, one stayed a year. One stayed two or three years. Another girl only stayed about six months. I was fortunate as there were more people coming to Prince George. There were dieticians among them. One girl had only worked about a month. When I came in, she was crying. I said, "Either you're husband has been moved or you're pregnant. What is it?" "I'm pregnant." When I interviewed her, I said, "You're not going to have any more children." "Oh, no, I have two little boys, that's enough." She left.

Johnson: How did your pay as a professional compare to Jack's? Would he mind you saying that?

MacPhillips: I would rather not say that. What I will say is that when he was in the army, he made tremendous pay. He was an officer and I got an allowance. Later on the one group he was with which was absorbed by another company, he got $125.00 a month plus traveling expenses. How could a family exist on that? When I started at the hospital, I made $235. That was in '54. Most of the nurses made more than I did.

Johnson: How long did they have to train?

MacPhillips: They trained three years.

Johnson: And you trained four.

MacPhillips: Four and the internship. I had the responsibility of the employees in the kitchen. I had twenty nine girls when I started. I had seventy when I left.

Johnson: What about the women that worked there? We come from a society where lots of moms work. What kind of women did you have working for you?

MacPhillips: I had some single girls, married women. They had their families. We wrestled through. The union had come in before I went to work. That helped the girls. We had some administrators that were death on unions and would have made it very hard for the staff.

Johnson: There was nothing like daycare around?

MacPhillips: It was terrible. We had no daycare. When I first started in November, I didn't get my housekeeper until January or February. I had part timers. I had one wonderful lady but her family came from Holland. She didn't want to carry on. I had another lady and the boys were so unhappy. I thought I would have to stop. Then I got this little old English woman. She would be in her fifties, a gutsy little lady. She managed the boys. She had the wooden spoon. She was allowed to use it if the boys needed chastising. I managed very well. She would do some of the housework and I would do some. Really what I wanted her for was to baby sit.

Johnson: To be here at seven in the morning so you wouldn't have to get the kids up and take them somewhere.

MacPhillips: Yes, I didn't have to take the boys out. She was there when the boys came home. Clark would be nine and Bob would be twelve when she left. They were old enough to leave. I was close to home. We lived on Winnipeg Street by Third Avenue in a funny little house. There was a raised walk from the sidewalk to the house to the front door. I t had been a hardware building for Mac and Mac. They made it into a house. It was where the IWA building now. I walked up Winnipeg Street to the old building where Simon Fraser Hospital is now.

Johnson: When did you move to the other little house?

MacPhillips: On Laurier, in 1960 we moved there.

Johnson: Did you move there from Winnipeg Street?

MacPhillips: Yes, we moved here in 71

Johnson: What was the nature of the facilities in the old hospital?

MacPhillips: It's incredible when you see what they have to work with now. It was terrible. The kitchen was awful. My office was a little and glassed in with a door. My desk was a kitchen table with an old wooden file that the nails would work there way out and catch on my uniform. When l had a salesman in, I had room for my chair and one extra chair. If the sales manager or his supervisor came, we were almost sitting on each other's lap. We had an old Agga cooker. That needed special coal which the hospital never bought. We used ordinary coal. It was delivered. The coal shed was almost in the kitchen, just outside the kitchen door. There was a corridor from the kitchen to the back door. You always knew the kitchen door because all the garbage cans were at the back. The coal delivery would come. The dishes were warmed on top of the Agga cooker. We only used the top of the stove for heating the plates. The coal dust would completely cover the kitchen. The power house was across the road and the engineers would come over and fill the coal. One dreadful day the engineer forgot and the Agga went out. He tried to light the fire without emptying the coals out. He brought a shovel of coals from the power house. That didn't work. He brought over some paper and kindling. The lid of the Agga cooker is on a hinge. It's a huge lid about two feet in diameter. The kindling was sticking up and the smoke was pouring forth and the bits of debris. It was just about the time for us to serve dinner. I lost my temper with the man. You could hear me all over the hospital. That was a/ terrible thing, that stove, but we had it in 1960. I don't know what they did with it but we sold our other stove.

Johnson: What was the other stove? Was it electric or gas?

MacPhillips: Gas. It was a little thing but we bought a new gas stove when I was there. The girl before me told me they got the new stove. She happened to hear that the administrator was getting a new desk and chair set. She was cooking on this antique stove. She had a wooden spoon in her hand. She went roaring into the front office. She got the stove. We had a little stove that wasn't big enough. The capacity was sixty beds but we've had one hundred and five patients. I still have my census figures. The girls found them and brought them to me after I left. When we opened the new building of sixty, there was only one hundred and twenty beds. Big deal. We were terribly busy. We had beds all over. The corridors were always filled.

Johnson: What was the level of sanitation then as compared to now?

MacPhillips: The sanitation wasn't very good. One thing I remember is that we used to use the icicles off the roof. The roof leaked inside. During the spring breakup we always had cooking pots catching the water from the leaks in the hallway. We always used the icicles for the croupette for the babies that had pneumonia. The icicles were good. They were long, thin and narrow. They would fit in the croupettes. When we moved to the new building we had no icicles. I was known as the ice machine queen because I had so many ice machines. Because our birth rate was so high, we had a tremendous number of children as patients. We had a lot of them who had pneumonia. They needed croupettes and they needed the oxygen that would go through ice. We missed the icicles from the old building. They seemed to last longer rather than the cubes. We had leaks everywhere. The old office of mine was stuck out a bit in the kitchen. Behind me was our boiler where we heated the water for the kitchen. We needed a lot of water for the kitchen. The maintenance staff would never check to see if there were any leaks. They were sure there was leaks but it was covered by this plastic coating. They used to assure me that if it blows up, it would blow the opposite way. It wouldn't blow towards my office. Great comfort. It never did blow up. I often wondered what it looked like.

Johnson: What was the job of the dietician in those days? You didn't do the counseling?

MacPhillips: Oh yes, I did the counseling.

Johnson: Did you have outpatients come in for counselling?

MacPhillips: Not very often. The doctors might send in someone if it was something desperate. They might send a diabetic. I did all the counseling and ordering. I mentioned earlier about having no money. Two of the big meat companies wouldn't sell us meat because we couldn't pay our bills. This was before BCHIS. I'm interested that some of the medical staff would like to do away with BCHIS but they weren't around when they weren't paid. They were never paid. Another thing that was so hard was our deliveries. The meat would come from Edmonton. Some of it still comes from Edmonton although we do have meat packers here. I used to phone the day the meat was delivered to make sure the meat came. It came in by CNR. Sometimes the train didn't arrive and other times the meat had gone on to Prince Rupert. I remember one summer picking up this very bloody hip of beef. It was supposedly wrapped but I twisted my husband's arm to take the car down. This piece of meat in the back of it, he was furious. Swift and another big company cut us off. They wouldn't extend credit to us.

Johnson: Where did the funding come from if not from BCHIS?

MacPhillips: From the patients, three or four dollars. We had some old ducks, old bucks from out in the woods that had money. It would be cheaper than going to a hotel so they would stay in private rooms. I remember I got this fancy china, unbreakable. The floors were cement in the kitchen so we needed something that would last. The saucers were very tiny to fit on the tray. The old men patients didn't like it as they couldn't saucer their tea. I was telling one of the Vancouver dieticians who were always very serious towards us in the north. I was the only dietician north of Kamloops for years. I was the only source of dietetic knowledge. I was the resource person. I did a lot of work outside of the hospital on my own time. This dietician from Vancouver was being so snooty. She said, "You would have poorer type of patients than we have." I said "no, they are wealthy old foxes. They all have money but they are used to saucering their tea." She thought they were the poor people because we live out in the boonies. We started so many things at the hospital. Much against our will, we were the first to try the prepared formula. In the new building in 1960, for eight hours a day we made formulas. That was a tremendous responsibility. We had so many babies. We had as many babies as St. Paul's. When I went to any maternity seminar, I know they didn't believe that we had this many babies. The nurses used to do the formulas in the old, old building where the Simon Fraser Hospital is now. I was given the responsibility when we moved into the new building. Just before we moved babies had been given salt in their formula and they died. I was terrified. I was using the same technique as they use in the O.R. It worked out quite well. The hospital administration wanted us to try the prepared formula. I was against it. I knew it would add to my cost. it did. We tried it for six months to a year. It was going to add about $90,000 to my cost. We went back to the old formula. They needed space and the formula took up quite a bit of space. That's when they went permanently to prepared formula. We had the formula room, the clean room with the autoclave, and the dirty room where the bottles were washed. The nipple washer gave out after we were there a few months so we used a hoover, the little hoover washing machine. It was just the same as the nipple washer. It had the wheel at the side. It was moveable so was quite convenient.

Johnson: You could get replacement parts if you needed them.

MacPhillips: Yes. It was cheap.

Johnson: What else did you pioneer?

MacPhillips: We had three kitchens. I was planning my fourth when I left. You have no idea the cost of equipment in the kitchen. I think they are getting a new dishwasher this year. It's $100,000. The equipment was dreadfully expensive. Most of it is stainless steel which makes it more costly. I used to have from NAIT Northern Alberta Institute of Technology and SAIT, Southern Alberta Institute of Technology. They had a diet technician's course. The girls would go to the
colleges for one year, coming to us for the practical. That was something. I had two girls. At the start they were wonderful. They would go to small hospitals, one to Yellowknife, one to Foam. Lake, small hospitals on the Prairies. They couldn't afford to have a dietician but they needed something more than a cook. I stopped that. The last two or three years was terrible. One cried the whole time for her boyfriend. She finally left. She came in the summer leaving at Christmas time. In January she came wanting her job back. By that time she had missed that many weeks and I didn't have her. Two other girls left in September and October. I discontinued it. It was too much work for us. I and the girls would set the course up. They would get good training but if the girls weren't going to stay for the year and weren't mature and old enough to leave their families, it wasn't worth it. One of the girls who left didn't even come to see me to say she was leaving. Her mother told me. I had the three hospital kitchens in the army buildings. The atmosphere and the people were never the same again. We had a small staff. When I was mixing up the Christmas pudding, I would get the nurses to come in to stir for good luck. You knew everyone. You knew the patients. When I left I was planning the fourth kitchen. The kitchen is not used from midnight until five or six in the morning. That's a dreadful waste of equipment. I felt Prince George should be the centre point. We should be making meals, freezing them end sending them to Vanderhoof, McBride, Quesnel and all the various small hospitals. This may come. Before I retired which is more than ten years ago, they were doing it at Surrey Hospital. They didn't have to replace the cooks when they went on holidays. They all went at the same time. They had the food out of the deep freezer. They have been doing it for years in California. Twenty years ago one of my assistants went to a hospital in California to see how it was done. You can make good meals if you have good materials to put in them.

Johnson: You can use the vegetables seasonally.

MacPhillips: This is something I thought we should do. I don't know how far Lydia, the girl who took my place, has gone. It has to come from administration. They have to support it.

Johnson: When you started, your hours of work were from seven to seven?

MacPhillips: That's when l was an intern.

Johnson: Were they more reasonable then they are now?

MacPhillips: Yes. When I went to Nanaimo, I still worked the whole day. I had to be there for the three meals. I had my time off in the afternoon so my span would be twelve hours. When I came back here, I worked from 8:30 to 5:00. Very often l walked up with the boys when they went to school. That was eight hours. After we were there awhile, we had the seven and one half hours. It depends. I used to work from eight to five. I never did work a seven and one half hour day. Lydia Johnson, the girl who took my place, goes early in the morning. It depends on your personal preference.

Johnson: How specialized were the diets?

MacPhillips: They've always been specialized. When l came to work, Miss Jerry Gowans who married Bill Ferry the judge, was doing the diets. She's dead now. She was so happy to see me as she had enough to do. I did the diets, wrote slips out everyday. I had no relief on the weekends so did my diets at home. No way could I do three days diets before I got off work on Friday. I had to do Saturday, Sunday and Monday diets so l always worked every weekend at home. There was no pay for the extra work. Whenever l brought up about the hours I'd worked, the men in administration would pretend they were playing violins. I'd get no sympathy. I did this from '54 to '60, until I got an assistant.

Johnson: When did you get to be the head dietician?

MacPhillips: I was always head dietician.

Johnson: I thought you said the gal who had married Gary was above you.

MacPhillips: She was Director of Nurses. She was doing the diets. You could imagine that she had enough to do without doing the diets. They fell on my neck when I went to apply. They were delighted to see me even if I hadn't worked for so long.

Johnson: How long had they been without a dietician?

MacPhillips: Almost a year. I applied on a Wednesday or Thursday. They wanted me to start the next day. I had to organize the boys and uniforms. Jean Kellett, who interned a year later than me, always introduces me as her oldest friend. I have not found a way to pay her back. She gave me her uniform. I had to get white shoes. I wore white summer sandals at first. You couldn't buy white shoes. They came three or four weeks later. The uniforms were cotton with double front. They were starched by the laundry. The collars rubbed your neck and made your neck sore. I loved the feel of them on the rest of my body.'

Johnson: What were the nature of the meals? Have they changed?

MacPhillips: Yes, because we have more money. In those days we didn't have money. The meat had to be ordered once a week and came in from Edmonton. If it didn't come, you would order from the small stores. We ordered from the Northwest Produce, Chuck Gabriel. He was just wonderful. Lots of times patients would come in and we would have to have something special. He would deliver. The big meal was served at lunch time at 12 noon. We changed in the sixties and have it at night. It was agreed to have printed menus for the patient to tick off. I don't know how long it took to get the menus planned. I did it myself. Mr. Tomalin was there which would be around '61. 1 needed help as I couldn't do everything. Mrs. Kellett came and worked for me. She did the regular work while l wrestled with the menus. The patients even have a choice of tea or coffee. It makes them feel better. The patients always complain. I often thought it was just a means of gaining attention or maybe they wanted social recognition. I had one doctor who told me his patients didn't eat hamburger. I said what do you mean. He said they were too wealthy for that. You mean those children don't have hamburgers from MacDonalds. That was another discussion. The doctors and I didn't get along most times. Every doctor wants everything for his patient. I was known as the Hamburger Queen. I was on the Library Board. They received this book "three hundred and sixty five ways to serve hamburger." I was so annoyed. This Doctor said his patients didn't eat hamburger. That's why I got the wiener-roses bouquet at my roast. Dr. Duscharme had this gorgeous bouquet. He had a lovely poem about weiners-rose. He felt his bone patients should have rare meat, steaks, roast beef, nothing else but meat. I argued and said the patients like wieners. Children love wieners normally. That's why I got the wiener and rose bouquet.

Johnson: You didn't have a choice of menu then?

MacPhillips: Yes, we did, but not in the old building. I served wieners even after we had the choice. A lot of the patients would still choose it. I found that most people didn't eat vegetables. They weren't very good at eating fruits; only meat end potatoes, even the wealthy and well educated ones. Up until 1973 when people became more food conscious. Meat and potatoes were what the patients wanted. Patients would have up to eight or nine eggs per person for breakfast. They could have some fried or soft cooked. They were always hard cooked as it's terribly difficult to get a soft cooked egg. In the kitchen you have to cook twenty or thirty in a bunch. They would want four pork chops. They were sick in bed. If a man has a broken leg, he's not sick. He's laid up. He doesn't lose his appetite. He eats because he's bored. Some of the trays were incredible. They could have meat, potatoes and gravy.

Johnson: When you came here, you were a professional. Did people treat you that way?

MacPhillips: I met a lot of dieticians who were patients. When I asked them what university they graduated from and what hospital they interned in, they had never been to university but they were all dieticians. I was nasty. I would ask them where they did their internship. Of course, they couldn't reply. I'm still called a nurse. People didn't realize that l had a different education to a nurse. I don't know whether the doctors know or not. They don't know much about food as they have so much to learn about medicine.

Johnson: That's why they need you.

MacPhillips: When we go to our other house, l go to the dietetic meetings. The dieticians are young and good to me. I went to a seminar that a Seattle dietician attended. She orders the diets for the patients. It never happened when I was a dietician. I wouldn't dare order a diet.

Johnson: You mean she goes by the patient's medical history.

MacPhillips: The Doctor would go along with her which I think is wonderful. It's coming.

Johnson: You would translate the statistics from the lab.

MacPhillips: Yes, a tremendous amount of chemistry. This is where the food production in the old fashion low fat diets but with the new diets, you need so much chemistry. Your knowledge of biochemistry and your knowledge of ordinary chemistry, just your scientific knowledge's. The new girls have so much.

Johnson: Do they still only have four years?

MacPhillips: Yes, the trouble is there aren't enough internships. In '77, there weren't enough internships. When l was at Vancouver General in 1938, they had thirteen internships. They have the same now. Look at the knowledge and the greater number of patients we have on diets. It was just this year that we were considered professionals by the government. Ever since I started 'to work they have been trying to get us professional status. The girls, Mrs. Johnstone, phoned me to tell me that at last we have professional status. Anybody could call themselves a dietician. These various weight loss clinics, diet clinics, they aren't dieticians. One girl said, of course, I'm a professional. There's my certificate. On the wall was a hairdresser's certificate. That's fine. She's a professional but not a professional dietician. All they do is take a course in reading the iris of the eyes or whether their feet is flat. That means something. It frightens me that people believe these people. They'll believe them sooner that us. We haven't been good about our image. I was reading the history of the Home Economic Instructors. It started in the 1900's. I can see why the public got fed up with us. One of the suggestions was that if you have a heavy lunch at noon time, have a light dinner. One of the suggestions was popcorn and milk. Can you imagine feeding popcorn and milk to your husband or children.

Johnson: I can't imagine feeding them popcorn and milk at bedtime.

MacPhillips: One of the teachers was asked for a good garnish for ham. She suggested toasted marshmallows stuffed with raisins. Can you imagine anyone doing the work?

Johnson: I can see where you would lose credibility with that kind of information.

MacPhillips: This is our background. We are doing things that the patients don't want to do. They don't want to loge weight. They don't want to be put on diets. Even some of my relations say I'm a nurse.

Johnson: Is it because you wear white and work in a hospital?

MacPhillips: They don't wear white anymore. I wore white when I worked. The diet technicians and the girls in the kitchen do. I wore a white cap too. We would be related to the nursing staff. In one hospital they said they didn't like to take orders from a girl who didn't wear her hat. They thought it was more professional.

Johnson: Even the nurses don't wear hats.

MacPhillips: No..

Johnson: What were your fond memories of the old hospital? You've already talked about that.

MacPhillips: The atmosphere and excitement. The kitchen was opposite the front door. The maternity was to the right and emergency was to the left. Everything came past the kitchen doors. You would hear pounding down the hall from the maternity ward. There were several babies born outside in the cars. They never went back as fast as they came running down. Nurses aren't supposed to run but they would. Emergencies all had to come through so it was an exciting place.

Johnson: You were in the corner of the basement.

MacPhillips: In the 1960 kitchen, we were tucked away in the basement. The morgue was off the kitchen. That didn't make it very exciting.

Johnson: When did the diet counseling to outpatients get started? Around the early '70's.

MacPhillips: No, we had always done a bit. In the '70's I didn't have an assistant dietician. I was swamped so I couldn't do very much counseling. It would start sometime in the 60's. The doctor would phone and make an appointment. It would only be diabetics or some very serious case. We didn't do that many outpatients. We had to look after the inpatients. When I got more assistants in the early '70's, we got the outpatient dietician. She started working four hours a day. I don't know how many hours she works now. I had nurse, Mrs. Merrick. She instructed the diabetic inpatients. She did the outpatients. She was on my budget. For a nurse to be on dietary budget was uncommon. That was another first.

Johnson: Can you think of any others?

MacPhillips: No

Johnson: As your staff got bigger, did you feel more like an administrator than a dietician?

MacPhillips: Yes, of course, l wasn't doing the diets. The hospital was very good. They sent the assistants and myself away to courses. One year I went to four courses. I didn't feel that I or my staff were alone here. They paid for our way, room and meals. We were very lucky that the hospital was so good to us. I felt our knowledge here was just as good as anywhere else. All the seminars were in Vancouver.

Johnson: You were isolated if you didn't go to those things.

MacPhillips: I felt we should go. They had excellent speakers. Sometimes the speakers would come from back east or the States. That would help. You would talk to other people that were having like problems. I think our food was good. I always had good costs. We were always compared with Kamloops because they were close to our size. How could they compare us. Their shipping costs for one thing was a lot less. Kamloops seemed to get everything they wanted.

Johnson: You retired in 1977. How did they mark your retirement?

MacPhillips: It was lovely. They had a roast for me. The insults just flew. I got so many things. I got a gold watch and bouquet. I always walked quickly so they gave me a little duck that the kids run around to help speed me up. Of course, I'd always been on budget. That's one of the things the boys said. "Mom, you're always on budget. You're never going to be off budget." They gave me a piggy bank, a shorties potty which was little child's toilet seat. I got so much.

Johnson: How tall are you to explain why you needed this.

MacPhillips: Five foot. Everything was so tall and the pots were tall. Nothing is built for small people.

Johnson: Especially the large scale operation.

MacPhillips: I remember writing one of the China supply people. I wanted a large pot but it had to be so we could look into it. I wrote them a letter that we had to see what was cooking. The Manager thought that was so funny. You have to be able to see. I was very lucky at the hospital. I got along very well. The roast was just lovely. I was appalled at the cost. They charged $20.00 a person which I thought was an awful lot ten years ago. I went storming upstairs and they told me it was none of my business and go back downstairs. I felt a lot of the girls couldn't go that would have. Talking about storming upstairs, one time someone came into the cafeteria. They asked what I was up too. I said nothing that l know of. They said what do you mean by that tea bag. I said, "Tea bags?". That person was someone that knew me. She said there is a coat hanger by the front door with tea bags hanging on it. This was an austerity measure. You were to save your tea bag and mark it so it could used again. I went storming upstairs and removed them. I don't know who did that.

Johnson: Was it hard for you to slow down when you left?

MacPhillips: I was asked to say something at Marion Corless' retirement last month. I ended my speech by saying that this 24 hour togetherness is the shits. Everybody agreed. Jack had been retired for quite a few years with his age. He did a lot of the housework. I was quite happy to let him but I had to do things the way he wanted them. It was very difficult. I think it's very difficult for anybody that retires.

Johnson: You worked it well having your own spot.

MacPhillips: We've compromised now. I miss the young girls. The dieticians and technicians were always much younger than I was. I miss that youngness.

Johnson: Having seventy people on your staff.

MacPhillips: Even when I started with twenty nine. I hadn't worked so had to get used to working with people. They didn't have anyone in the kitchen. I was very lucky as they gave me a lot of authority. Of course, that's nice to have. A nurse would phone up and ask for a sandwich. She was blasted because we didn't have the time to stop and make a sandwich. If the patient didn't like the meal, how would I know if he would like the sandwich. I just wouldn't do it. We tried to do things for the terminal CA patients but couldn't do too much.

Johnson: They wouldn't want to eat anyway.

MacPhillips: A lot of them didn't but tried to tempt them. Our way of cooking would be different to them. We had a lot of broken jaws because we have so many car accidents. We would make what we call a blender mix.. It was potatoes, gravy and vegetables. It was a disgusting looking mess but it tasted good. To get the young men to taste it. Once they tasted it, they would eat it and enjoy it. We would give them milkshakes but they were desperate for the taste of meat.

Johnson: Your community involvement from day one.

MacPhillips: My pay was never cut off if I had something during the day. I did a lot at night. I went to calorie counters and various groups to speak to them. For a few years I judged cooking at the fall fair. That almost killed me. I was always sick afterwards. The first time I went I said something about spoons. They asked if I was going to taste it. I said how can you judge it. The girls from Vancouver never tasted the food.

Johnson: When did you start the judging?

MacPhillips: In '55, soon after I started working but I didn't judge very long. They didn't like me. I was fussy. Sometimes the convenors would be hanging over my neck when I was judging. I was quite outspoken. I haven't changed. I was only asked for three or four years. I remember one year ending up with canned bear meat. I thought I just can't taste the canned bear. I'd gone through the venison, the moose as well as all the cookies, cakes, breads and pickles. I would come home and be deathly ill. I didn't like judging. It was hard work personally. You'd try to be fair. Your standards are not someone else's standards. I wrote away for standards the first year l was asked. No one had them. When I was at the Vancouver General, we were using figures. For example a slice of bread has three grams of protein and carbohydrate. Those were the old figures. When I started the Americans had brought out new figures - two and fifteen. We went right on to those figures. A lot of hospitals in B.C. were quite awhile starting them. All our figures came from the states. My husband said something about the amount of chlorestoral. I said that I don't know how things are now but all our figures came from the US Department of Agriculture. How do they apply to foods here? How do they apply to foods that travel from California and have been three days on the trip? They won't be picked fresh. I used to tell the patients to use the canned and frozen. It would have more food value than the fresh. A lot of people wouldn't agree with me.

Johnson: They don't have the color or taste appeal. Any nutrition material that I've read says the same thing because they're picked at the height of freshness and preserved.

MacPhillips: They are preserved better than most homes would do it. I thought all those years I worked, twenty three years and we are still using the US Department of Agriculture figures. I was on the mailing list for the US Government. I thought it was super because they sent me publications that I could use. I didn't get anything from the Canadian government.

Johnson: What else did you do in the community?

MacPhillips: Nothing. I did very little outside of that. I was on the library board for eight years. I enjoyed that very much. That was hard work too. For quite a few years I was the only female. The girls brought cake which meant that I was the only one bringing cake or cookies. I went out very little. When Bob was in the pipe band, I worked in the pipe band auxiliary. That was once a month. I did very little outside work. The library board was once a month.

Johnson: What about personal interests? Did you have time to follow anything like you're doing now?

MacPhillips: No, I sewed a bit. I made most of my clothes. I sewed for the boys a bit. I wished there had been thrift shops in those days. You can do so much with reusing your own materials. Just because they are out of style doesn't mean that the material has gone.

Johnson: What do you do now?

MacPhillips: I'm busy. I sew and knit for the babies at the hospital for the auxiliary. They gave me this huge bag, about thirty balls of wool. I took it with me. I knit a lot in the summer. Last year l did baby quilts and I didn't get much knitting done. This winter I made six quilts for the auxiliary. I made a baby quilt for a friend that had a baby. I like to read. Reading is my downfall, even the telephone. I used to play bridge before I started work. I never could understand Mrs. Ferry when I first started work. She said I'm going out to bridge tonight. I just can't think after working all day. I couldn't understand. After I worked a few months, I knew exactly what she meant. You were too tired.

Johnson: You were challenged all day, physically and mentally.

MacPhillips: The challenges. For us to get a source of information. When I first started work l wrote so many letters for advice. That takes time.

Johnson: You wait months for the answer.

MacPhillips: Most of the girls were old. The other dieticians in the province were wonderful. They answered me. They were awfully good but it takes time to do things.

Johnson: You didn't have your own typist, I'm sure.

MacPhillips: No, I didn't have one. The fight I had to get an electric typewriter. I was the last one. We weren't even on central power for years. I was stupid and didn't discover it until later. We were in the kitchen with fridges and freezers. We had to go in with a flashlight. I got the square battery type lights. I was ordering four. One of the directors of nursing asked what I needed them for. I said I need to see in the refrigerators. The storerooms had lights. The power went off quite often and we would be left in the dark.